Talking Public Art
Talking Public Art
Guest speaker Brigitte Orasinski on community participation and bringing the best that the arts can offer to people’s doorsteps
In our first episode for Season 3 we talk to Artistic Director Brigitte Orasinski of Folkestone-based arts company, Strange Cargo.
About: community participation and working with large numbers of people; on bringing the best that the arts can offer to people’s doorsteps; and on having a hand in the restoration of Folkestone Station.
Plus: the importance of celebration, 29 years of carnival and big old chunky guide books.
Contact Talking Public Art Podcast:
LinkedIn connect @FrancisKnight Ltd
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Email us at office@francisknight.co.uk
Thanks for listening & keep podcasting!
Contact Talking Public Art Podcast:
Instagram us at @artbirdsfk
Linkedin connect @ FrancisKnight Ltd
Email us at office@francisknight.co.uk
Thanks for listening & keep podcasting!
Talking
SPEAKER_03:public art
SPEAKER_01:with us Louise and Laura from Francis Knight Public
SPEAKER_03:Art Consultancy. Conversations with a range of arts practitioners, community activists, planning directors and design teams about how we can make places better by working with
SPEAKER_01:artists. Our role as public art consultants is all about the delicate balance of client expectations to encourage new ways of seeing, developing relationships, connecting people and enabling the creative process.
SPEAKER_03:Today we meet Bridget Oransky. Bridget has been the artistic director of arts organisation Strange Cargo since 2004 and has been involved with their work since 1997. She grew up in Folkestone and studied at Kent Institute Art and Design, now UCA in Canterbury. She was responsible for creating Like the Back of My Hand, Folkestone's first public artwork, and has run a not-for-profit fine art gallery in the town since 1997, showing the work of over a thousand local, national and international artists.
SPEAKER_01:She oversaw the development of Cheriton Light Festival from 2013 to 2020 and pioneered Sharivari Day, Strange Cargo's celebratory carnival for Folkestone, in which over 20,000 young people have been involved since 1997. She describes her practice as participatory in nature, and this is underpinned by Strange Cargo's principles of access, participation and excellence. She has two grown-up sons, one of whom is also a Welcome, Bridget Orozinski. Welcome to Talking Public Art. This is our third series and it's a special year for us. I think we might have mentioned that we're celebrating 20 years in business this year.
SPEAKER_02:Fantastic. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Thank you. And we're all about longevity. We kind of, we know that you have also been part of Strange Cargo for 20 years and that Strange Cargo itself has been an arts organisation for almost 30 years, 30 years next year. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Well, I started with Strange cargo in 97 but I've been artistic director for 20 years so yes a long time congratulations to you thank you 30th anniversary next year for us it's incredible
SPEAKER_01:it's incredible yeah I think considering you know the economic landscape
SPEAKER_02:sometimes you wonder how you're not quite sure how you've done it but we all we're all still here which is great
SPEAKER_01:yeah that's right yeah so I mean listen just tell us Tell us a little bit about Strange Cargo, and in particular, we'd love to know how you started working there and what your career path was to artistic director.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, I didn't start studying the arts until my early 30s when my children went to school. And I found myself in the early 90s at the University of Creative Arts in Canterbury, studying for a fine art degree. And previous to having children I worked in admin at the council, which actually was quite a boring job, but set me up for what I do now, really, once I'd learned to be an artist. The role that I was employed to do when I first started at Strange Cargo back in the day was to be a project coordinator. So I had all of those admin skills from my previous life. I had my art degree, so I applied for the job before I graduated and I got it. So basically I sort of rolled straight out of university into the job with Strange Cargo. And it was in quite early days. I had worked with them as a freelancer before, but this was a permanent salaried role. And I've been here ever since I didn't really think I would still be doing the same job that much later but it's just a fabulous position to be in as an artist to be able to apply your own furrow really and work out what you would like your art to be and So that's basically what I've been doing since I started. But the original artistic directors decided that they wanted to go and do other things in sort of 94, 95, no, 2004, 2005. So I just shifted sideways into that role of director. artistic director, by which time I'd been well and truly ensconced in the organisation for a while and was quite happy to take that responsibility. But I think what I brought to the company was my fine art practice. I think the company has a lot of celebratory roots and we haven't lost any of that in the mix. But what I brought was my experience of conceptual fine art practice. And I learned through the work that I was doing with Strange Cargo how to work with large numbers of people through the carnival, through the lantern parades, through all of those sorts of things, but to apply that fine art practice into making public art. So that's pretty much been sort of what we've been doing. But the thread of work that... the thread that runs through all of Strange Cargo's work is participation. So it may take many different forms. It could be a book, it could be a carnival, it could be a public art book, an exhibition, an object, all sorts of things. But there's always that sense that the community plays an active role in shaping what the project is. But with the same project, the artist is still the artist. We're not asking everybody to be the artist. We're asking them to work with the artist and to be visible within what is created.
SPEAKER_03:So going back to being the artist then so when did you realise that you wanted to I know you said after your children had grown up a little bit but when did you did you always know you were an artist or that you wanted to go to art college or?
SPEAKER_02:Yes I think so I had a place at art college when I was 16 but you know life just you go to work don't you so that's just the way it was so it's just the opportunity sort of presented itself a bit further down the line so it was a five-year part-time degree which I would advocate for everybody because I think it's It's a wonderful way to study. You get a chance to sort of understand what being an artist is like as part of real life. You're not sort of in a bubble. You are actually sort of living your real life alongside your studies. So you understand when you leave how to continue to do that. But I know I was very fortunate that I fell into a job that gave me the opportunity to sort of develop what I do.
SPEAKER_03:I think I agree with you because I also think that it's good to take time out to think about what you want to do so I did this I didn't go straight to art college I had some time out because I went to a course that wasn't quite right for me I stopped and then I thought okay and I did some I did work in the real world you know part-time sort of or working in offices and all that sort of stuff and realized I did want to do it and I think having that time out made me appreciate it more and I think I got more out of it as well I kind of ask more questions as a bit more curious when I was there and what was quite nice was there were different mixes of ages as well I think which really really helped but I didn't go straight into a job after I came out of art college so well done you for doing that because that's that's a lovely thing to do and I think it sounds like you've grown in that in that role as well haven't you from you in Strange Cargo. You've kind of grown from the beginning.
SPEAKER_02:I would say what's interesting is I didn't actually appreciate when I was at university that participation participatory practice was part of my thinking my sort of mindset um and it's only with sort of a bit of sort of hindsight you look back and it actually I was doing it then I just didn't really have a name for it
SPEAKER_01:um so how did it in terms sorry in terms of Australian Chicago how did you get involved with them how what was your first sort of
SPEAKER_02:they they advertised a position they recently um I was the first salaried sort of employee actually uh they they'd um secured some funding and they had a role that they wanted to fill. So they just advertised it and I thought, well, I'll apply for that. I didn't think I'd get it, but I did. That's amazing. Yes, it was great. It was in its infancy at the time and I had done, as I say, a little bit of freelance work for them. But yes, it was back in the days when we had our main offices in what is now the Creative Quarter in Folkestone, but it wasn't the Creative Quarter then, it was the old High Street. But we had our gallery there for a long time about 17 or 18 years. But we moved out with the building I'm in, which you can see behind me.
SPEAKER_03:It looks fabulous,
SPEAKER_02:by the way. This is an old factory building in Cheriton. And so the history of it is we used to have a stable block connected to a barn in Folkestone behind the council offices. And we'd had just put in, put together a heritage lottery bid to restore the barn and to turn it into our permanent headquarters. And the application had gone in and And then somebody set fire to it. We don't know what happened. It burst into flames. And so all of that work was gone and the barn was gone as well. So we had to relocate very, very quickly. And this was a print works. It used to be electricity substation back in the day. So this is the office, which is upstairs. Underneath us is our gallery and workshop. And actually going back to when I was at university, there was always very flexible spaces there. And so that was my vision for this building is that it should be a flexible space. It can be a gallery when it needs to be. It can be a gallery when it needs to be. It can be a workshop, it can be a meeting space, performance space, all sorts of things. But we're very fortunate that we've got enough space for it to be whatever it needs to be. I
SPEAKER_03:think what's lovely as well is that you've got that gallery space and it's, am I right, it's free to go and visit? Go to see exhibitions. I think that's an incredible thing to be able to do,
SPEAKER_02:actually. Yes, I think for me, everything that we do is free for people to join in. That's just really important. So the only way you're going to develop new arts audiences is if you're going to give people the opportunity to test things, to try things, to sort of get to know whether they like them, free of charge. So, I mean, that's, you know, it's not for everybody, but for us, that's quite important. And we try to take the work that we do. A lot of it happens in the public realm because that's where people are. So,
SPEAKER_01:yeah. I'm kind of intrigued by the the public realm work I mean the participatory work I you know I can clearly see where Strange Cargo have come from and how they've applied you know your expertise but with the permanent public art that that was a slight shift for Strange Cargo then to to venture into the sort of more permanent piece pieces
SPEAKER_02:yes yes I think we we made the first public art in Folkestone back in 2000. And it was really, it wasn't a deliberate sort of thought process that we were going to end up creating a series of public artworks it was just a one-off idea because I don't know if you remember back in the millennium it was everyone thought that everything was going to fall out the sky and it was going to be quite a sort of devastating time but we thought well it'd be really nice to sort of try and celebrate with with the townsfolk and after sort of a bit of thinking about it the millennium is about numbers it's about sort of multiples it's about years and so it was you know fortunate really that it's one of those rare opportunities opportunities where you can actually talk to people born across a whole century. So with the back of my hand, we were able to sort of make contact with the person born in every single year of the last century, starting with somebody who was 100 years old and finishing with the first baby born on the 1st of January in Foxton. So we ended up being able to talk to all of those people. And it was really an extension of what I had done when I was studying at college, because I'd done sort of repeat sort of involving lots of people in things then, but it was sort of an evolution. You don't realise at the time, but you start to sort of see a pattern emerging. But, you know, we made the piece of work which existed in, first of all, in the gallery, and then we raised enough money and were approached by the local authority to help with the restoration of the railway station. And we managed to find the resources to have the pans cast into bronze, and they're still there today. And they still mean something to people today, which is lovely, because every person person involved has a history with the town so their families are still here their friends are still here and even though a lot of them are gone they're you know their families still visit their hand
SPEAKER_03:it's a great location as well isn't it where it is yes because you're literally arriving leaving it's everything isn't it you can you kind of connect with that piece of work if you're coming in as a visitor or if you're leaving or if you live there or if you're using it it's it's a great did you choose that location obviously it was because it was part of the local authority restoring
SPEAKER_02:yes no we didn't necessarily no it was um the the um uh i want to see what's his title i think he was the conservation architect at the council at the time jeff pearson he knew that the railway station needed some works to bring it up to scratch and it really was awful at the time. There was green slime on the wall and one thing or another. And he knew that we were looking for a site for the hands. So he said we'd be interested and actually worked out terrifically. It looks like it was made with the site, but that came along a bit later. But it won the Rouse Kent Public Art Award when it was installed. So back in the day. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:well, we have that in common because we won it as well, actually, in 2005. It was for the John Newling piece of work that we did. Yes, yes. And I remember those awards. They were just a lovely thing to be part of. And if you were lucky to be shortlisted, it was incredible, wasn't it? It was amazing. It was, absolutely. But to win it, I think, was a really lovely thing because they don't do it anymore, do they? No. Which is a shame, really. It is a shame, yes. You know, it was really about Kent, wasn't it? And about making work in this area and being, you know, sort of celebrated for it, really.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, absolutely. It can end up being quite invisible if you're not sort of sure how to promote it. I agree with you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think, you know, that's something that we, as a consultancy, as you as an arts organisation, we have to do. We have to do everything, don't we, to get all that work going. And the fact that you then self-initiate your work to the fact that you have to find the funding, Bridget, that's a feast and a feat in itself. I mean, how... Yeah, I... To comprehend that you do that and then you're in your 30th year next year, I think that is an incredible achievement because we know how hard it is to get funding or to even find work sometimes, to tender for work, to get those projects done. going working yeah yes no it's true and to bring people along with it as well you know you talk about participatory and and using you know you're bringing those people with you aren't you as well at the same time that's a that's a quite a big task
SPEAKER_02:yeah yeah yeah I suppose it's something that it means a lot to us we know how to do it because we've been doing it for a long time um it's you know the raising money is never easy and it's getting harder as you know so yeah
SPEAKER_03:uh
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. We're just trying to plan for next year at the moment. And we have our applications in, waiting for decisions. Some of our work is commissioned. We've recently been commissioned to make one of our guidebooks for Dover by Dover Town Council, which is fabulous. And there's other commissions and other partnerships, but there's still money to find. And things like Cherry Verity, which is our carnival, which means an awful lot to us. And that's in its 29th year. That's one of the projects we raise the money for. Yeah. every year ourselves and touch wood it's still going and we have a partner this year or next year in with the lees lift which has um okay yeah it's being restored and reopened as part of the heritage lottery program but uh yes it's um yes juggling act
SPEAKER_01:it's a challenge isn't it it is yeah do tell us about your resident platform program it it's obviously your current yes art program and it's this sort of collaborative practice involving professional artists and local residents It sounds like a wonderful project. So do tell us a little bit more about that.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, thanks. Well, the resident platform, we know that we know how to do it, but it's being able to share how... we participate with communities, with other professional artists, because quite often artists are trained to be a sole practitioner. They don't necessarily have the sort of understanding of how to bring other people into their practice and to sort of share the opportunity to make art together. So the resident platform, we are very close to folks from West Station, which is literally, you can practically see it from our window here. And then around the outside of the station buildings are lots of little square buildings canopy supports there used to be a glass roof canopy and they're little bits of architectural sort of brickwork that are little white plinths and we've through the discussion with South Eastern Railways we've been given permission to locate our bronzes on these plinths and there's 24 of them and the resident platform really invites professional artists most of them from out of the area to come and to work with us and to make a bronze sculpture for one of the plinths using their own practice it can be you know something we don't ask them just change how they work but for a lot of them it's the first time they've been sort of had a work cast in bronze but the the deal is that they observe us making a with the community group. So far we've worked with the library staff in Cheriton with a group of local residents who have just responded to a call out. The cemetery volunteers who keep Cheriton Road Cemetery clean. We're just doing some work with the takeaway owners in Cheriton. So we've tried to sort of sort of find people who don't necessarily always join in with art projects and go and talk to them and invite them to be part of it. So for every piece that a professional artist will make, the community group will make a companion and they will always be unveiled together. They will always be a pair of artworks. But it's not really about just the professional artists, about them understanding how we engage other people to be part of the process. And at no point does their artwork lose credibility because I think it's always that anxiety if you're an artist that you're watering down the impact of what you're doing but that's not the case it's the works they really are standing very strongly together and the more that we install you can really see that that whole cultural conversation of a community starting to just present itself so we've got ten installed we've got another four going in this year we've got another six planned for next year and we're getting to the end of the sort of the 24 plinths but it's been an extraordinary thing and you always wonder whether it's going to work when you start out but it's really been a lovely thing and it creates a cultural destination at the station stations are places of comings and goings as the hands station is but it's lovely to be able to sort of do something that you know just changes what a place is the reason you know reason people might go there
SPEAKER_01:it's a great opportunity for an artist as well and and you know because they can obviously create work as you say sometimes for the first time in bronze so that's one thing the other is observing you as a company working directly with your residents and getting people to participate um you know that learning must be does some artist just want to get involved at that point or are they kind of is it quite strict that they are observing and learning
SPEAKER_02:that that is the deal that um that that and they're they've all been brilliant i mean you know it's just been an experience for them from you know the feedback that we've had just that seeing how it happens and that it's it's not difficult it's just it's a conversation you know that people just sit down they don't have any particular experience or previous sort of knowledge of how to scale sculpt whatever I mean some people have more sort of have done more creative stuff than others but generally they're just you know everyday lives haven't involved making a sculpture and we sit down and three or four hours later there we are they've got their pieces of wax or their clay and it's ready to go to the foundry and that's what's at the station we don't tell people what to do it's through those conversations that these things evolve so Yeah, and the results of what you see at the station. And actually, it's quite interesting to look and think, I wonder which one's the artist. So we have a plaque under each one, but you'd be hard pushed to sort of know in some instances because the pieces that the community have made, they really are quite extraordinary. So, yeah, it's
SPEAKER_01:a fascinating thing. There's something very special about being located and embedded within a community for such a long time, isn't there?
SPEAKER_02:There
SPEAKER_01:is, yeah. That you're able to make so many... meaningful and deep connections with where you live. I mean, just thinking back to the back of my hand, that's a very emotional piece, isn't it? A very emotive piece.
SPEAKER_02:It is, and they do start to take on a life beyond your original concept. I mean, everybody was very well alive when we first cast their hands. But of course, there's probably 30% of the people are no longer with us, but the families have said to us, we go to the station and we touch our loved one's hand and it feels more real and helps them to remember them so that was you know it wasn't a memorial when we made it but it is a memorial to some people now
SPEAKER_03:How do you go about getting your artists then Bridget do you directly go to them or do they come to you or how does it
SPEAKER_02:work? Well I've been working with a curator which Rich that you sort of saw who his background is fine art and he's yes he went to the Royal Academy he's well connected within the art world and he's suggested people that we may work with so in most of the instances the artists that we've worked with so far he's curated that and we would have exhibitions in our gallery for most of the people that we've worked with as well so we've just had Clara Hastrup I don't know if you can see there I know this won't be she's done a terrific exhibition downstairs which has just come down actually but yeah it's fabulous you know we get to bring some extraordinary artists and their art to the end of a residential street in Cheriton you know our gallery is a good space it's a big space because of the nature of what the building used to be so it's yeah it's fabulous and I think part of what we do is to want to bring the best that the arts can offer to people's doorsteps. They don't have to necessarily go to London to see something extraordinary. So, yeah, it's trying to sort of make sure that whatever we're doing, that we can ensure that the community gets to be part of that and to see it. But to bring really good art to here as well. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:high quality.
SPEAKER_02:High quality, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Just want to come back to the funding and the self-finish, because I still can't get my head around that, that you find all that funding. Is there any bugbears about that, or is there anything that you would like to change or...
SPEAKER_02:No, but only to have lots of money. No, it's one of those, I think, you just have to have a very thick skin when it comes to fundraising because nine times out of ten, you won't be successful, but you just need to be able to move on. But generally, over the years, we've managed to either find partnerships or... you know work out that you know the major projects that we've we've decided we wanted to do have been self-initiated self-initiated particularly the participatory projects in the early days when participation wasn't a thing and nobody really understood you know people say that's a lot of fun you thought well it is a lot of fun but it's not there's more to it than that there's you know it's giving people sort of a place around the table in the cultural conversation who live somewhere and because quite often you know art is just brought in and presented to people and and that's it but um they're very rarely part of it and for us it's about being part of a wider group of people who have played their part in making that cultural experience happen so yes I think we've evolved our public art programme understanding more and more what we're doing how to involve people. Hands was the first thing. Other people's photographs was our second big public artwork, which I had a photograph of. I grew up in Folkestone, so I had a photograph of my mum and dad in the town centre in the mid-50s when they were very young. And I thought, I wonder where this is. And I went out one day with a photograph and found it. I thought, well, if I've got this photograph, other people will have similar. And the premise of the public art project was that we wanted to find a similar photograph of somebody with friends and family in their picture for every street of the town and amazingly we did it and we amazingly we found a partnership that funded it and the artwork is still in place today and it won an extraordinary number of awards simply because it took public art to the places where people live. So you could open your front door and one of these photographs, which they're on metal panels and they've been in place since 2007 now, but they're outside people's front doors. And they mean something to them because everybody knows this street. Everybody understands photographs. It's trying to take... the offer that you're making to people to join in as close to them as possible, because it has to be something that people are interested in doing. It's no good having what you think is the best idea in the world as an artist, but if people aren't interested, they won't join in, and then you don't have an artwork. So you've got to be very conscious of what would be an interesting... idea for people to want to at least start the conversation with you i was going to ask you whether they
SPEAKER_03:were still there actually i was going to because the majority of them still are yes that's great none of them have been like taken away and kept by people or anything
SPEAKER_02:like that not that i think a few of the lampposts have been replaced and unfortunately they didn't make it across the new lamppost but the majority are still there there was 540 Wow, that's great. Yeah, it's more the fact that people joined in and it was just a lovely thing. And even though a lot of, there was, you know, on several occasions people have come to me and said, oh, I meant to join in that, but, you know, I've got a great photograph. But I thought it's more the fact that the invitation is there, even if people choose not to join in, but that they know that they could have done. That's what's important because that's quite
SPEAKER_01:rare. Yeah, it is real. Yeah, I agree. And I suppose what you've built is this amazing track record of delivering projects like that. So in terms of getting, you know, funding for new projects, you've kind of improved what you've done over those years. We find that if we want to do a project, particularly if we're working with commercial clients, you know, housing developers, if we... well we and we do we try and convince them to do something slightly different because they come to the table with a lot of preconceived ideas it can be really difficult because they haven't seen it done elsewhere yes and so having that track record and say but this is hugely this has been hugely successful this isn't a tangible object necessarily it could turn into one say like you with the photographs outside but if we're looking at something participatory or an events program or socially engaged practice they can't understand necessarily understand that concept initially so it's trying to convince them in some way shape or form that that is going to work. And I think Strange Cargo, you're living proof that that approach works. You can make it work, yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I
SPEAKER_01:mean,
SPEAKER_02:it took a while. Most of the early projects, which, you know, we're very proud that we initiated, they were us making them happen. They weren't commissioned by anybody. I mean, we found partnerships in the end, but that was, you know, that was terrific. But, you know, it could certainly have just fallen flat and not happened. But we went on to make, we were talking about developers and... We worked in Ashford a few years ago to make, when our Wick Place was being built in Ashford, we were commissioned to make a piece then by somebody who had experienced our work as a developer and enabled us to sort of access the local community. And the site of the new development was on the old cattle market, which had a huge local resonance. So we recorded all of the sort of importance of it. in people local people's sort of histories and that's written into granite slabs on the pavement so it's always actually saying something you know giving people a voice because change is inevitable but you know you do want to record the sort of strength of people's feelings and um that's always there now so the history of the site is written into the new development which is great so as as
SPEAKER_03:commissioners then so obviously our role as public art consultants we we do end up we obviously we work for commercial developers but we do end up being the commissioners in finding the art yes what would you want to see those commissioners or us or that our role in how we get to do or work with more people like strange cargo you know what what should we be doing what should we be
SPEAKER_02:I think just what we're doing at the moment is having those conversations because I think, as you've just said, people sometimes can't understand what participation is and how it could possibly work because it does sound a bit elusive as a concept. But yes, by being able to demonstrate a long practice and building relationships with people, I think that's important. And that's what our carnival has done over the years because now it's in its 29th year. Those children from those early processions are now the parents and the teachers and the artists and more in our community so they have that relationship with us and I think it's about building relationships with people if you can I mean being lucky enough to have been in the same place for a long time does help that people learn to trust you because we always try to do exactly what we say we're going to do but having conversations with people who understand what it means I think that's a huge open door to
SPEAKER_01:taking that next step Yeah. So if, just looking to the future, what sort of public realm project would you love to do but have never had the opportunity to do? Gosh, it's
SPEAKER_02:quite a hard one, that. Every time we thought of what we'd like to do, we try to find a way to make it happen. But I think it's, for me, it's, if I was thinking in the bigger sort of bigger world with very large developments happening, new towns being built and that sort of thing. I think it's important not to underestimate how important celebration in the arts is because that's a very recognisable form of sort of art gathering and it's the first stepping stone to everything that comes afterwards because everybody comes together, everybody has an opinion about something. It's not about doing things by committee because I think that's quite difficult to do but by sort of bringing people together and for them to embrace the arts and culture as part of the whole of the community is a very valuable first step and in master planning for a new town that shouldn't be the cherry on the cake at the end of it all it should be one of the very first things that people talk about is how can we make this into a cultured community that celebrates together that recognises the value of coming together and how can we enable that community to have the spaces and the infrastructure for that to happen so I think that's you know looking back at what I've learned that's where I think I'll pass on my knowledge is to say you know don't wait till the end to stick it on the top of the cake I think we
SPEAKER_03:agree with you because you know we have many a conversation where we're brought in at really late stages of projects and then even silly things well they're not silly actually they are really important things like when we go to design team meeting are at the agenda we're at the bottom of the agenda if you put us you put us at the beginning of the agenda then we could actually talk about or everything because yes art relates to everything
SPEAKER_02:and it's about people and you know everywhere that is being built is any built environment yes only is animated when it's full of people and you think that's don't lose sight of the fact that they need to come together and with our cherish and light festival event which we've done for five years um or did on five separate occasions um the the highest value that people sort of attributed to it was it brought the community together we always had it at the end of February which was shockingly cold and the first thing people would always say my god it was so cold why did you do it then but we did it because people needed that opportunity to get out of their houses to congregate because they'd been starved of that
SPEAKER_03:horrible
SPEAKER_02:wouldn't it yeah we closed the high streets traffic we bring in international artists but we also bring artists to work in people's front rooms and illuminate their windows and so it's a real layered effect and everybody feels part of it but bringing the community together always came through as a very important part
SPEAKER_01:of that. And I think post-Covid that remains, doesn't it? If not we understand that all the more now. Absolutely,
SPEAKER_02:yes. Unfortunately the money that sort of helped to pay for these things doesn't seem to be quite so available now. The last Light Festival we did was three weeks before the pandemic and unfortunately we've not been able to sort of raise the funds to make that happen since but fingers crossed you know
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah but it's so important with the master planning even we find getting just an artist at the table with the design team to be thinking and we're probably thinking more in terms of permanent works although we always try and bring a temporary program alongside that that is the difficult sell though that is always the difficult one yes and it's how we how we find how we find ways to convince developers that that's as important if not more important than anything permanent left because actually the permanent works can come out of the temporary program
SPEAKER_02:yes yes yeah it's building relationships with people and working out what you're trying to say what relationship you want to have to the site yeah and to the people that are going to be the consumers of your art whatever it might be so yeah I mean there was an occasion when we were commissioned by Folkestone Triennial which was terrific but we just delivered other people's photo and they invited us to be a triennial artist and to propose something. And in the end, we thought we don't want to put another object in the landscape. So we proposed that we create a guidebook for Folkestone, but using the same skills that we have. But instead of having an object, we had something that changed your view of where you were. by the information you had in the book. So people could carry this sort of pocket-sized book around. Just to show you, I know this won't show on the podcast, but there's one we've just done for Dover.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:we can see that. It's a big old chunky book, that. A big old chunky book. Gives lots of people the opportunity to tell you what's important to them about where they live, why it's important. And for this particular triennial, the theme was a million miles from home, and we weren't a million miles from home, so we could bring that to the table. And we created this book, which has gone on now become a series we've done them we've just been commissioned by Dover Town Council to make one for Dover and that's being launched very soon but they've been bestsellers strangely we've sold we've outsold Harry Potter in our local Waterstones but yes it's their biggest ever selling book in Waterstones in Folkestone you think well it just shows that local people have a lot to say they're the experts on where they live so you can find a way whatever it might be to put their art into an art form.
SPEAKER_03:I think there's another important issue is time as well actually and I think we struggle with getting enough time to do things and it sounds to me like you do take your time and it's the right way to do it to allow that conversation to allow those people to come out from behind their doors that may not begin with and then see something happening and might then become involved and I think that's a really important and and it's a priceless thing really having the time Yes,
SPEAKER_02:you're right. It's hard to do it sometimes, but if you are genuine about... participation you know need to be able to tell people what you're doing give them time to process what that is think whether they'd like to be involved then they've got to get in touch with you and all of those things they take time but you sort of you get used to being a bit pushy and sort of but you know and just going and wandering up to people in the street and just waving a copy of what you know previous version under their nose and just saying this is what we're doing and they go oh that looks interesting you know they don't think they know anything until you start chatting to them and then they just end up these parts of pearls sort of all from their mouths they just tell you wonderful stuff so yes I think it's great it's fascinating working with different communities you learn so much
SPEAKER_03:well we've learned so much from you it's really interesting I know you've already asked because we For people who are listening to this podcast, we do ask a few questions before we get our guests on. It's only fair. And one of them is a little known fact about our guest speaker. And I know you've mentioned this before, but is there anything else that you, a little known, unknown fact about you, Bridget, that we don't know? It's not a trick question. Do you still practice? Are you still making your own work as an artist? I do, yes. Or do you feel like you're making it through Strange Cargo? How does that work?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I do feel like I'm making it through Strange. But I do have a separate practice. But I think all of the work that I do is about connecting people to the arts. My personal practice is I make... portraits and images out of plasticine, but they look like paintings. And what's interesting is people's reaction to it. That's the idea is that you're taking away a barrier. I think quite often people don't feel connected to the arts and they feel a bit sort of reverential towards it. They don't quite sure what to say. But if you tell people that a picture is plasticine, and not oil paint, all of a sudden they have a relationship with it because they know the smell, they know the feel, they know what it does. And I think it's just thinking, well, actually, you know, there's no reason you can't make pictures out of other things that people feel a bit more, you know, connected to. So it's just a way of sort of, I find it fascinating to sort of work like that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's brilliant. It's been so nice to chat to you, Bridget, and hear about your work. And yeah, it's absolutely fascinating and inspiring as well. Oh, thank you. Lovely to talk to you again as well. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_02:No, thank you. Take care. Thanks.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Bye.
SPEAKER_00:Engaged, creative, curious, courageous and valued, Francis Knight is an award-winning independent public art consultancy based in South East England with over 20 years experience offering expert advice and management in commissioning high quality public art for the public realm. As co-founders and directors of the business, Louise Francis and Laura Knight commission professional artists from across the UK to create ambitious public realm artworks in a variety of locations. The consultancy partners closely with housing developers, design teams, social housing associations and local authorities, together with a wide range of community groups, to create brave, ambitious, thought-provoking art for public spaces.
SPEAKER_01:Next week we talk to Chris Dixon, cultural If you enjoyed
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